022: Blue (1993)

This month, the boys have an in-depth conversation about a visually mininal, narratively challenging, yet substantively dense work of art! Derek Jarman's 1993 'Blue' is an extremely experimental statement piece reckoning with his mortality at the behest of the AIDS epidemic. Jarman creates a moving and profound expression of his final thoughts while pushing the boundaries of what it means to be a film.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Welcome everyone to Eyes Wide Watch Club. We are here. It is what are we in? June? Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 0:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

We made it. We made it, boys. Um the Knicks won the World Series. Uh the col Columbia's gonna play in the Super Bowl today.

SPEAKER_06 0:42

And I hate you so much, Dan. Oh my god. That that fucking tweet I sent you. That's why I sent it, you rat bastard.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

As I was saying it, I realized I am that guy that's not into sports. Uh, but yeah, anyway, this is not a sports podcast. This is a monthly film club. Uh, subscribe on YouTube to the Dan Ivy YouTube channel. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, everything, and all that stuff. Uh, but anyway, so for this month, uh, we have a recommendation from Remington, the film Blue. And uh I believe, I believe this is a very appropriate. You might have mentioned this when you recommended it uh for for Pride Month. So uh Yeah. Um, but yeah, go if if you want Remington, go ahead and uh introduce the film and tell us about it, sir.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

Yeah, so for this month, we did watch Derek Jarman's Blue from the year 1993. Um, it's an experimental film uh in which the the entire film is just viewed on a blue, a plain blue field, you know, there's nothing else going on visually, and you are just listening to narration um from multiple actors uh throughout and and music. There's a lot of music in some song, and it is meant to convey uh Jarman's perspective uh in the late in like the last few years, months of his life. Since uh due to complications from his experience with AIDS, he was rendered mostly blind. And in terms of what he could see, that's mostly what he saw. He saw the color of blue, which he thought was um, you know, spiritually, philosophically, artistically interesting, because he had always been interested in uh ideas of monochrome and art, and he had always been drawn to the color of blue. Um, so the fact that his life was going to kind of seemingly end this way, um, you know, it was profound to him. So that's why he decided he wanted his last, what was probably going to be his last film, from what his understanding was at the time he was making it, to be like this. Um, so you know, it is about a uh gay man in the 80s and 90s uh experiencing uh both AIDS and the surrounding uh homophobic discrimination that was and also just discrimination against AIDS patients in general during that time, um is about an artist, uh an existentialist artist reflecting on his career. Um, and it is also like a philosophical text uh in of itself. Uh and I'm excited to uh talk about it today. And we can get into all those things, but yeah, I would like to looking forward to get into that with you boys.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah. Uh I'll just I'll just go first, I guess. Um no, this was um really interesting. This was probably this might be the most challenging film I've ever seen. Uh for just on a on a practical level, you know. Um mainly because it really is challenging what it means to be a film and in a way that I never really thought of, um, because w we think of film as an what's that?

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Oh, you feel like froze for a bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Oh, sorry. Um just what I meant was uh you know, w what we consider to be a film, you know, um I consider film to be an audio visual medium, and this is in a way that um but it's it's yeah, it's it really is challenging what what film can be. Um and I really respect it, and I think this is the perfect kind of I mean as tragic as it as it is, a very you know, poetic, artful, beautiful piece to to to experience this all through, um just subject matter-wise. And uh yeah, it's it it was very challenging for sure in a lot of ways, but that was the most I guess that was the thing I found it the most fascinating about it was just kind of just really, like I said, challenging what film can be, which I think is really cool, but um yeah, uh that's that's just kind of my opener, I guess. But yeah, what about you? What about Eugene? What'd you think about it?

SPEAKER_06 5:02

I thought it was incredibly profound, um, to the point where so like yeah, much like Dan, like when I'm watching it, I'm like this really challenges the like the phrase motion picture, because there's no motion. Um you know what I mean? Yeah, or like a moving picture. Like I thought it was kind of just funny thinking about that. Um like it it's the kind of movie where it's like, oh, like obviously a movie is much more than just like moving images on a screen, right? This movie really challenges that and I really appreciated that uh to the point where I watched it twice. Um one visually, right? And then I was generally I was very curious, like, how am I gonna experience this like just purely as an audio format, right? Like much like a podcast or like a uh uh or um uh an audiobook because I found myself thinking like this this also works. Yeah, I understand like the point of having like the blue on the screen, but it's like I wanted to just think like, what if you just like like for I find myself just like at times lying around my bed and just listening to it, you know what I mean? Just to really like really visualize the imagery in my head, um, and just kind of like really let myself fall into like no visual distractions whatsoever, just let me visualize this like narration, right? And I really enjoyed that. Um I listened to a lot of podcasts anyway, so like it's something I'm very comfortable with and familiar with. So when I'm like during the first watch, quote unquote, I just thought to myself like I want to listen to this, you know what I mean? Okay, um, and it was it was very rewarding, it was a very rewarding experience.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, uh Remington, what now this was uh your first time watching it as well. What did what did you take from it? What did you think of it?

SPEAKER_05 6:47

I agree um that it is challenging. I I've seen experimental film before, not like this, where where everything you know is you know just a solid field. Um, but I definitely agree that a good chunk of the big I would say like really the first half of this is like really demanding of your patience. I think it takes a while for it to like fall into place about like what is happening here and like what is trying to be conveyed because you're kind of like okay, I get that you're like explaining your feelings, it's a little you know, free associational, it's a little stream of conscious, you know. You know, um there are a couple hints here and there, but they don't really become clear with their hints until much later on, and so um I think it does demand a lot of your patience, and so I was feeling that. And then as we got we went along and things started to like really click into place about like what is the wider project here. Um, I I I much like Gene, I was I was just I was very moved um about like everything that was going on. Um, you know, you know, what what what is being just borne out to us from this man's heart, um, you know, you know, you know, about his soul, um, about his about his mind, you know, you know, and everything that he um was feeling leading up to that time and how he wants to be remembered, you know, and his thoughts about like you know, the beyond, so to speak. You know, it's it's just a very um impactful film. I can't imagine what it must be like if you were a member of the age generation, um you know, in you know, and if you were able to see something like this and what that might mean to you, or even just being a queer person today um and looking back on that kind of art. Um that's an experience that none of us here get to have. Um, but you know, you know, I I just I just I just really really appreciate something like this.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Um yeah, I I um I don't know how much um I I want to try as hard as I can to talk about the the actual subject matter of the film, which is gonna be kind of hard because it's like you said, it's very Remington, it's very stream of consciousness. It it's kind of just it's very vignette, and I'm sure we're gonna sound so wanky and pretentious as hell when talking about this, but it's but it's art. It's it's art, and art can be a little pretentious, and that's okay. Yeah, just we can have that.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

You know, he's a very serious artist, and that's what all of his movies were like. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

That doesn't just mean serious just is passionate, like it means that you can't like and it and it can be head up your own ass, but I mean clearly this is a guy's just like I felt like I was just um being read like just like uh uh free flow consciousness is kind of the only way I can think of it of just his experience and and not and it's not just narration, it's it's sound design. It is essentially a and this is where I was kind of challenged by it, where it's essentially a radio drama in a lot of ways, and um or what what's really interesting when I was reading about the film and the making of it, um I don't know if you guys picked up, but it's it's funny it is just a very just um still monochromatic uh like blue image on screen, but it's it actually was shot, like footage was shot on I believe like the 45mm film or whatever. Um I I believe they did actually shoot like a color like swatch or something, um, because it is on film, and you can see there was like one point in uh where you could see like the little film grain uh what I don't know, you would call them rips, like a little bird. Like there was there was one point I almost paused and like wanted to take a screenshot where there is one point where you could see a little white ripple across the screen very quickly. And I did read, like, yeah, there was a camera pointed at something and shot for this. So we can say that there's no visual component, but tech on the most technical level, that's not true. There is a visual component to this film that was there was a film literally shot.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

Um it's very intentional about why why this is the way that it is. It's not it's not nothing. There's there's a real reason behind it.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

It's something to is it something to do with like color theory or something? Explain it to me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 11:44

Uh oh, so he was inspired by this artist. I'm going to butcher their name. Their name is uh Ives Klein. Um, they're a very famous artist. Um, and they're known for they're the one, if you you've probably heard the phrase more than you've heard of this artist and who they were, but the blue period that that comes from this artist. So people will say, Oh, I'm in my blue period. They're like referencing this man who produced he had other works, but this section of his career, he produced multiple paintings that are essentially this. They're they're solid blue, like ultramarine, um sapphire-like fields. They're just totally blue. And they are meant to um convey this idea of like limitlessness, uh uh of infinity, you know, uh uh of um, you know, like some higher spiritual plane that you couldn't access. It's it's really meant to really, that's even putting too much onto it. You're really supposed to like when you look at these things in a museum, they're big, and you see in these big rooms, and you're supposed to just like drink them in, and you know, you know, you're supposed to feel your mind expand almost. And like what that comes to you, what that brings to you, that's on you. Um, and that's kind of why, you know, if you were I'm I I don't remember the exact quote. I don't know if someone took a note, but that's why when the movie opens, it's kind of like blue. There's like a narrator who's like, blue means like limitlessness. It's it's they say something like that. And so like that's kind of the idea. And there's a deeper significance that we can get into about what he's trying to do with that, but essentially, just on the surface, it is a tool. Since there's nothing going on, you know, you know, you know, there's nothing moving around us to practice, it it's it's a tool to just take in everything as it's as it's going on, right? Um, and just so if you were sitting in the theater watching this, that's all you had, and you should just have to listen to it and feel, um, and just drink in the horizon of blue. Yeah. Um, so so there is a very there's a very clear intention.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

And in a way, it's it's his perspective. He he literally was going blind.

SPEAKER_05 13:54

Literally, yes. And that's the added layer, that's another added layer. That that's what he could see.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah. Um so it isn't it it's it's not just purely hokey bullshit for the sake of it. I mean, it is very intentional, like go like in a in an actual like a practical way, um, you know.

SPEAKER_05 14:12

But uh that is what experimental film is like. You know, you you know, like like to the to the untrained eye, to the layman, you know, experimental film can seem pretentious, it can seem random, it can seem very confusing, um, but you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of intentionality in like the seemingly not so random, actually. You know, you know, it's meant to push the the medium in a way that really is designed to question form and convention, you know, you know, and be like, what is a new thing that we can do with this? And here's my proof of concept of how we can maybe do this new thing. Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, maybe it only works for some people, but this was my idea and attempt. And you know, part of the fun of that is reading through like, what do you see in this? Um, and there that's why, you know, um many many of the more famous examples of experimental films are actually short films, right? And that's why uh when I wanted to do this particular topic, I had a hot trouble finding a film that was like an actual film, like film length, that would be a good pick for this. Um, because I didn't want to do like a bunch of little ones. Um, but you know, I I felt this fit the bill, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Um yeah, I uh you know uh it's funny because I do, I was thinking about it because I do recognize uh radio dramas as a legitimate form of art, you know, and I and I w wondered to myself, you know, is the is the the film the literal visual aspect of this of this movie is it necessary or would this I don't want to say work better as like an audio drama, like would this be better I don't know uh I better's not even the would it be better suited as like an audio drama or like released as like an album, you know, because there is music and there is like what if what if it was like divvied up into tracks, you know, on like a record or something. And but you know, I I like that even if that was the case, even if you could make that argument, which I suppose you could, I like the um the the has to be a there has to be a vinyl of this, right?

SPEAKER_06 16:24

Like a double LP. Like there has to be.

SPEAKER_05 16:27

If not, they should I think I read that this has been performed before, like like in front of an audience.

SPEAKER_06 16:32

Um so it's really good as a record, too. You could definitely buy it as a record and like the album, like the whole like I'm just picturing like the entire like packaging, just the blue, right? Like no, like no text. Um, maybe the back would have some actually no, even like maybe like the back, I don't know, have some credits like the in the inert, the insert, but like just like the blue, that that exact blue as the entire packaging, and then you just play it as a double LP. It would work really well, in my opinion. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna finance and release it, guys.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

The soundtrack uh baby BBC Radio 3 Um did release it as a radio play in the 90s, and it was later that was later released as a CD.

SPEAKER_06 17:15

Um there's no vinyl though, and I think there's not a vinyl.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I did read there was a um when the BBC did play it, um as like a radio drama. Um they sent something about like listeners could like send in or something and they would receive like a blue postcard in the mailcard to to look at um while listening to it. Yeah, just I I like the um I like the what's the word I would say like the the not the balls, but the the gall. The the moxie to to say no, I'm making this a film. This is a feature film, and I put a camera to something, and this is I'm con I like that I like that if if I'm going to go out, this is how I'm going to not just but it's his statement of pushing the medium forward or just into different territories that haven't you know I'm that are well I think you know you know expanding radio plays are valid.

SPEAKER_05 18:16

I'm not diminishing radio plays, but I do think I do think it's important to stare at that blue field. I I'm I'm sorry. I I I I and No it is Gene, your your approach is is is your on your second run is also valid. Um, I thought about something like that myself. I actually thought like, oh, I should do like LSD and watch this one time. Just really open myself up, you know, you know what I mean? Um and try to feel. Um but I but I do think having that blue field is really important because it also helps you to really understand on the parts that are about his feelings, direct feelings and thoughts, it really helps you put him in his perspective. And that also I do think the blue is kind of like a message in and of itself about what he's trying to say about um death and what his thoughts on the fact that he's dying. Um, so I I think losing that um and that ability to shut yourself off, you know, you know, I I I think that something's lost there.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

I I completely I completely agree, but also I just I'll you know for lack of a better term, death of the artist, uh be damned, but like this when he released this, this was the this is how this artist intended this this expression to be experienced um as a film with like that there it's not just the audio, that is the visual accompanying it. Um which I really like I said, like it's just the the the real it's it's a very bold, it's a very bold and strong expression to say this is how this piece of particular art is meant to be experienced by not just listening to this beautiful vignette. Like I just I felt like um I felt like I was like kind of yeah, just like getting a just I was listening to like a like the um the manifestation of like just this guy, this dying man's like notebook, just scribbled notes, you know, and and like being brought to life with with narration and music and soundscape. And um yeah, it like I you know it just it was it was extremely profound and um yeah I just I I uh I really appreciate it is it is truly experimental in in every sense of the word, you know. And I think it and I think it it's it's beautiful, it's beautiful, it's art, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

As I adjust my monocle.

SPEAKER_06 20:52

Yeah, um no, I mean, like I said, it's um I watched it twice for a reason because it's important to have the visual aspect, especially since like you know, so I read that uh when he started to to lose his eyesight, um basically his vision also became like a shade of blue. Right, yeah. So, you know, you need that to understand to like see what he sees, right? As you're listening to basically his ramblings in a way, but he's also telling he's also telling a story about his life, and it's like he's just putting you into his shoes, right, fully and completely. And I I find that that that's what I found so profound about it. Um I was really taken by um him talking about his all the his friends that he's lost as well, to AIDS, and he's wondering about like he he knows he's it's it's it's it's it's he he's gonna join them and he knows that. And that's like that that's that's what found so that's what I found so profound. Like this is a man who knows when like his time is up, it's coming soon, and you know, the last few months of it aren't exactly pleasant. He's described you the medication. Takes all the side effects, right? And how at times she doesn't even want to do it because he's like, What if I just didn't, right? Um, and it's like the it's it's it's music that only happen when you're truly confronted with your own mortality, right? And you're you start to wonder, well, like, and like I said, it's it's just it's it's very like really sad to talk about like his friends that are already gone. I guess quite a few of them, right? And not just friends, they were also his lovers, they were his lovers, too, yeah. And it's uh and like you know, Remy Ton, you like to, you know, you talk about this a lot. A movie, you know, when it was made is important, right? So this is the AIDS epidemic, right? The Reagan era. Um, this is like after that, right? He talks about he talks about Bosnia and like you know, it's it's came out in '93, right? So it's right after the fall of the Soviet Union and everything happening, you know, Yugoslavia breaking up and all the violence that came with that, right? Um he's talking about that being on the news, and it's very important to know exactly when this happened as well. And I think he conveyes that very well.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

Yeah, and we can we can get into that, but this is um, you know, this is meant to be like like he's he talked about this kind of being his last testament, yeah, in a way, and part of what you're you're supposed to get here, and it doesn't, it's not unless you know about him, I don't know if it's a if it's a necessarily intuitive in the film, but essentially, so um if you recall, like the film is essentially him reflecting on part of the film is him reflecting on the state of things as he is dying in the world, right? And where he feels that we are at. And so part of what's being conveyed, not all of it, but an element of what is being conveyed is actually a sense of pessimism, yeah, profound pessimism. What he is describing. If you remember that scene where it gets like all disco and he's describing dancing and having like orgiastic sex, um, that is his reflection of what it was like in the 70s, where he felt like gay liberation is upon us. If we just, you know, we we can be ourselves, we have our community, we can fight for this. Like, because remember, homosexuality had been decriminalized in the UK in like 67. So there was a good period there um where you know, you know, there was a degree of normalization and to where um you know, you know, there was like an emerging gay community that was publicly there. Um, and then the 80s come along and you have Thatcher, and they don't criminalize homosexuality, but they do they they they they're like, oh, you know, you they they have their own version of like you can't corrupt young people, you don't do that, you you know, that that whole canard. And so they pass laws around that that are essentially meant to put gay people back into the closet and to take them out of aspects of like public life. Um, and so to see that, um, coupled with the fact that like, oh, we're supposed to be in this end of history moment, the cold war's over, but we're still having these horrific wars and a genocide in Bosnia. He's like, the world is not getting better, right? Progress does not seem to be um, you know, just infinitely happening, right? I'm you know, it's 20 years after when I thought there was going to be liberation, and in fact, we're we seem to be moved backwards. And so he's like feeling that. Another added element is that he is not ignorant about AIDS, he was actually an AIDS activist. Um, in fact, one of his big claims to fame is he was one of the first like British celebrities, like very important people in public life, to publicly announce, hey, I have AIDS. Um and he spent those last two years of his life, like he I think he disclosed that he had AIDS in 86, I want to say, 86, 87. And he spent those last two years of his life doing AIDS and gay rights activism. Uh um something that he he was never he was never involved in that on the political end. He was always artistically open about his sexuality, like a lot of his films are about adding a queer dimension to like various great works in the Western canon and like analyzing that through like an excess with through like existentialist means and stuff like that. So very clear about his about his queerness, um, but he was never like pull on the political end of that. And so he spent those last years of his life becoming that person. Um, and so to see that and having fought and not seeing those improvements, because again, this is 93. Thatcher isn't in power anymore, but there's still a conservative prime minister, John Major, who's not really changing those things. He's still very much a Thatcherite. Um, you know, you know, you know, um, it's it's it's there there is an element of pessimism here um that should be contended with. Conservatives are just evil, man.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Every last one of them. Yeah, he said, what did you say?

SPEAKER_06 26:49

I said, I mean, yeah, you think. Um yeah, I mean, there's yeah, there's a this through line. I I um because I don't want to fast forward, obviously. Like, um, like when we get to his ending, like like his last like soliloquy, I guess, in a way. Um, he talks about just like life is fleeting, right? He said basically like it'll just drift away like a cloud passing by. Um I I'm listening to it, and I was like, this is this is like this is incredibly beautiful and also like prof like profound, like and deep in a way of like, yeah, like life just it in the long run, you're just a blip, right? But it sounds like there's a pessimism to it, there's a there's a there's a pessimist uh ism to it as well. And I wasn't entirely sure if he was trying to be or he was just kind of being like very matter of fact, because like I agree, like that's just how it goes, right? One day you will be forgotten, right? You know, they say, like, you know, the last time so the last time somebody speaks your name, that's when you're truly forgotten, right? I thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Um man, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:45

It was very beautiful. Like, I was gonna be crying, like it was such a beautiful uh ending. Like, I was in tears. Um I just found it so profoundly beautiful and like just sad. And it's like, um, and lucky for him, like, you know, all these years later, we're still speaking his name, right? He's he's he's he's well known, he's regarded, so he has not been forgotten. And I and I found that uh quite a beautiful uh thing to have happen uh for him, you know. He knows that maybe maybe he doesn't, right? We don't know, but I I I just found myself like appreciating that, like, no man, like all these years later, people still know you, and maybe you didn't think that, or maybe you like maybe maybe just didn't think like your art would last. And sure, one day we'll all be gone, maybe there will be one day where no one remembers you or your work, but that day is and I was very like I had like I I like it was like nice to feel that for him, you know.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

Um yeah, well, an undercurrent of that is that what he's feeling in in that sentiment is that he didn't really break big until the end of his career. Like, like once he announced he was hey, uh I'm the controversial niche filmmaker you may have heard about, but don't know too much about. I have AIDS, okay, and we have to do something as a country about this. And then he also kept making films in that period. Then he became a mainstream hit, success, respectable artist, right? And so, like those last years of his life, he was reflecting as like, I kind of didn't really make it until at like the end, when I'm about to die, and he just kind of had to sit with that, you know, you know, until basically until his heart stopped working, you know, you know, you know, you know, and so that's kind of what's being felt there. We're just kind of a blip, we're kind of passing by, and he's so like he wasn't sure he couldn't have gone to his deathbed knowing that he would really be remembered. He couldn't read he couldn't really know, like, is this just sympathy for me, right? Do people really care about my my work? Um and will it just all go away once I'm dead? Um so it goes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:48

So it goes.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Um, I I was I I don't know. Um, I wanted to ask. I I I feel like I'm getting into this a little bit too early, but I wanted to ask, like, um it is funny, I don't know about you guys, but growing up, I do feel like I was there do you guys feel like when we were growing up, like were we ever whether it'd be in school really taught all that much about the AIDS epidemic and that whole time period? I feel like I was never really not really knowing exposed.

SPEAKER_06 30:23

You yeah, no, not really. It's kind of just washed by really a lot of it.

SPEAKER_05 30:27

No, um, I do think like indirectly in like health class, you know, stuff like that. Um, but like not like like in terms of like history, no, not not not really. Um I can remember like having conversations at home about it with my parents, um, because this was like like when we were in high school, like this was a time of like, you know, rising LGBT activism, which also included a reflective element on that period. Um, and you know, my parents, they're Gen X, so they were like, you know, they were coming of age during this moment. They were, they were in their they were in their twins, they were in their late teens, 20s, early 30s, right? When this was still um kind of uh like a really big deal. Um, and so you know, there's a lot of conversations in my household about like those um differences, I guess you could say. Uh um, but that's probably not everyone's experience. Um, and no, I I don't remember there there anyone having like a direct frank conversation in school about it.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:32

Um, yeah, I I remember it maybe like maybe in textbooks would be like mentioned like as like a thing that happened during that time, but like that's it. Like no no deep dive into yeah, you know what truly happened. Uh no, I really learned about it. Uh I'm sure Robert Evans didn't know a sort about it. About um Remy, yeah, he did it. There's not a superhind of bastards. Remy. We talked about the guy who was like uh super hardcore conservative, but he was one of the first to be like, hey, people are dying. Like, like, like in every other sense of the word, he was like Catholic and a Reagan supporter, but he he was so taken by the like utter disregard where he's just kind of like, Hey, these are still people who are dying, and like yeah, I'd I I disagree with their lifestyle, but as a moral man, as a Christian man, I still don't think they should be dying.

SPEAKER_05 32:19

Yeah, yeah. Also, Slowburn did a whole season dedicated to the history of the of like the AIDS, yeah, of like the AIDS movement and stuff like that. Um, so good. Um and I do think in that post-Obergefell period, I think there were like several films and like mini-series that came out about it too. Yeah, um, so so like um no, like like I don't remember grade school teaching me much about it, but I do think that we were fortunate to also live in a time where like people who had something to say about that period were able to say it, and those materials became more widely dispersed, you know, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:57

Um yeah, no, for sure. I mean, it's like um, you know, we have the gift of hindsight and the gift of living in a time we do now, in regards to like just how sex is viewed now, right? Like you talked about, and uh Bon Ambassador still talks about it, like one of the big Reagan things is like, no, sex is a thing that only between a man and a woman, and you only have it when you're trying to conceive, like you don't have it for pleasure or for recreation, like it's it's uh and like you know that whole and you know, even like historically, right? How taboo sex has been in the US and you know culture in general, and you know, we live in a very you know, for our faults, we there's a lot of progressive that does a lot of progressive stuff that happens and we get to live in, right? Um, and even shit, even like 20 years ago, even like when I was like, I mean, even as like in grade school, right? Uh well, we were all grade school age, like being openly gay was still was not accepted, right? Um, it it just wasn't a common thing like it is today, right? We have that gift of being able to live in that, right? Um yeah, I and you see it too when you're lost like family guy and like from like the early 2000s, it's like, oh yeah, like that was a thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Yeah. Uh no, I uh I did have a um I remember I I have a very, very vivid formative memory of the awakening and it's coming.

SPEAKER_06 34:09

Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

So I was in the locker room. And uh no, there was a um there was like because yeah, I always you always heard like AIDS and like when you're in middle school, like jokes about it and stuff, and I never really knew anything of what actually that whole time period was and what that was like, and I did have I I vividly remember we in our health class, we and this was in like I I think it was actually not until my senior year of high school, um, I was in some sort of health class or something, and um and they had a speaker who was an aid survivor, and it was just to our it it wasn't to our like a it wasn't like a big school assembly, it was just to our small little class that we had. And this guy came in and I remember he told us his experience of his just the most gut-wrenching story you could ever hear. And and just about how I I can't imagine I it does boggle my mind how much I feel like, at least maybe with our generation or growing up, how much we were never really taught about this whole phenomenon phenomenon, this tragedy that happened. Um where you know it's not just like it's just this, you're already uh uh uh I guess for like a class of people that is discriminated against, but also everyone around you is dying, your loved ones, and you don't know if you're gonna get this disease. And it's um he was talking about this speaker about how um you know he had to watch his partner like wither away and die in a bed, and it was and he had it too, or something. I don't know, or he survived it or something, or I don't know exactly the the however it happened, but I think he even said like his he was a very skinny, scrawny guy, and I think he said something about like he had very veiny arms and something about how like I think it permanently affected him or something. Um and it was the most heart-wrenching story, and this whole other layer on top of it, I remember he the whole class, by the way. Well, we were all crying, like the teacher, like every like the the guys, the girls, like everyone was tearing up. It was so fucking sad. And he said that um, you know, he he said he distinctly remembers driving or something, and he was basically also in the midst of dying from this, or or or I don't know how whatever, but um he was being affected by it, and he saw a car and it was a bumper sticker that said AIDS killing all the right people. And he said that was a like people were it was a conservative thing to be like, oh good, they're all dying. And it like I can't, it's just it's so like we we learn about not to not to not to play the discrimination Olympics, but like we hear about like you know, the the um we learn about things like the Holocaust and civil rights and all these stuff, but but like I can't imagine like the AIDS epidemic sounds like such a horrific, horrific thing. Um, that I just I never felt like I really truly ever learned about that much.

SPEAKER_06 37:26

Um, I mean, just chalk it up to again a dark period in American history. It's not sufficiently covered, Dan. I mean, slavery for all its horrors is not covered the way it should be, in my opinion. But AIDS epidemic, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Like it's well it definitely is it it was definitely a it's a a more talked about thing, or there's more like I actually think what's the um that the the the number one movie about this? It's it's Dallas Buyers Club, right?

SPEAKER_06 37:53

Um Yeah, oh yeah. But Jaredo's was it Jardoto?

SPEAKER_05 37:58

No, was it let out kind of a fraught example because he's like uh I mean I mean yes it is valid to depict people who got HAV by way of um you know like intravenous drug use um and I guess having sex with having heterosexual sex with a with a woman, which is also a very rare way of getting it. Um, and um, but like also it's like I'm going to be the greatest experimental drug dealer, and it's like it's like yeah, I guess what you have to do have to do what you to survive, but like is this really what we need to do for like AIDS representation? You know, in in in you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Um I get what you're saying, but like I don't know, yeah, it didn't have it gave it painted me a picture of what at least like oh this was like a blow.

SPEAKER_05 38:48

You were 16, you know, and you didn't seen anything like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Um but I always have like yeah, an admiration for that movie. For that movie, uh just because of it.

SPEAKER_06 38:56

But yeah, I got watched that last week. Yeah. Um to get back on topic, I mean, this is this topic too. Um, how did you guys like the so like you know, the all the sound going on in the movie is a huge part? Um, I was very pleasantly surprised to see that Brian um is it Eno you pronounce it? Brian, I know worked on it. He's a very Dan, if you don't know he's a hugely acclaimed like musician for doing competitions and very out there weird stuff. So it was really cool to see that um that he got involved in the movie.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

Um made a documentary that I wanted to see froze so badly when it was out, but I didn't get the chance, and it's on it's hello, hello? Yeah, we're out here we got you out. Okay. I was gonna say he made a documentary, Brian, you know, uh a year or two ago that I wanted to see so badly, but did not get the chance to see it when it was in theaters. And it is on Criterion Channel, but it's not the same thing because what's special about it is that it's essentially a um curated experience that he made of how of like his musical works, you know, you know, and like his experimentation and and and stuff like that. But every screening is different. There's there's literally like I don't remember how many tracks that he made of this film, um, but like every screening that you go to, whenever place that had the film, like they just randomly select which one to show that audience, and it's like different. But obviously, if you go on criterion channel, it's there's gonna have the one version. Yeah. Um, so I was like, I was like, oh no, I can't I can't I can't really get the experience anymore. Um, you know, you know, um, but uh yeah, that sorry to cut it off track, but just to give you an idea of like how how I know this person to be as a as a claim as they are.

SPEAKER_06 40:53

I just know him because I, you know, know music and all that. Um and yeah, Danny should look him up. He's very influential uh in the 20th uh late 20th century, uh mid to late, um, just very out there, just doing lots of cool stuff and pushing, you know, like what can you do with music, right? And soundscapes. And uh so listening to this, I really enjoyed it. Um I love the the the the theme with the the the Tibetan bells. That was really I I find myself quite uh quite struck by that. Um this is like I said, like again, like this that's why I wanted to listen to it too, because there's just so much going on that I wanted to just like focus on, like just have an ex just like do a run through of this, like let me just hear it all, right? Um and uh yeah, I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Um yeah, is there is there any um I feel bad because I I didn't really have any um I I because I I think I watched this last week, but I didn't have any like I was trying to think of anything I could kind of like any segments or moments I could pull out. I mean we did mention a few, but um like I'm trying to think of like specific moments in the narration that we could bring up or just highlight.

SPEAKER_05 42:05

The one that if we're just trying to pick out moments, um the one that stuck out the most to me um is when first when it starts and he's like in that I think it was like a dialysis room. Um and like he's like, Yeah, you just kind of have to like some donor is gonna come by and they're gonna be like, Oh, so sorry, what can we do? And you just kind of have to like say the negative thoughts at them because otherwise I think he's trying to say that like they're gonna try to like own you or something like that, or make you seem into something that you don't want to be. Um, you just kind of have to say what you think in that moment, and and like no matter how negative it is, and then that sort of uh transitions into some what I thought was some very um like provocative, uh like like like lyrical poetry that came afterwards about like his sexuality and gender orientation. Like like what when it's like the lads were like, I'm a manish carpet diving, like like yeah, um uh man loving or something or something like that. I I don't I don't know. Um oh yeah, no, no, straight lesbian, I I'll I'll look it up, but but that and then it like goes further, becomes a little more musical, and it's like it's like um I am uh not gay, you know, something like that. Um that really stuck with me. I was I was I was like one, it was like a puzzle. It's like what do you mean? This is like norms of like a previous generation that I don't have the lingo for. Um and then two, like it's like so so that this is what you need, you feel the need to remind these people who who are like in the respectable upper classes who want to use you perhaps as a prop, um, but you yourself do not wish to be a re use, and you want to be a reminder of the things that they actually do hate and don't support. Um, you don't want to see yourself um uh co opted. But then it was also interesting to think about like.

SPEAKER_06 44:00

what is he someone who was always openly queer and identified as gay but yet wasn't always fitting into those labels somehow and like what that means for like gender expression like like I was I was very I I I personally was very was very um intrigued and struck by that part yeah um did he at all sound and I'm pulling this completely from memory so feel free to squash this but did he at all sound like bitter and angry in some parts um I mean I would not because I because I kind of like that I felt like I seem to kind of remember that um I mentioned before I do think there's an element of like pessimism yeah or also like regrets not the right pessimism because again like the idea of the world is not getting better um even though we were always kind of told like about the arc of progress you know you know like that's what the contrast between the 70s of like disco and free sex you know you know versus like the 90s where there's like but also happening have you guys ever like hung out with like a person who's dying yes that's the other part of it because I also mentioned that before too which is like the idea of like I'm dying and nobody cared gave a damn what I was doing until they found out that I was dying and I just have to that regard just like not even that regard like I you know I can have to get into it obviously but like so when I was a personal care aide like I I covered a shift for another worker uh so I covered a client that was not one of my regulars uh it was this uh very this this um he wasn't too old but he had he was ravaged by cancer right um and he was he was on the way out like very clearly he knew it everyone knew it and you know like he had like a bitterness of like a pessimism to it because I mean I I get it like you're you're dying you know you're dying right and your quality of life just changes right you he used to be this like independent person who could hold down a job and do you know but he suddenly that that's taken from you right to the point where you need a health aid to help you get into the bathroom you know cook your meals for you and it was it was it was it was pretty sad to see right yeah he ended up passing away uh a few months later because I remember I asked um the his regular worker I I saw him one time he he was uh one of the houses I worked in had two clients so I had one and you know there was a worker from another client and he was covering a shift for the other the other uh client and I asked him like oh how so and so and he's like oh you didn't hear he he he passed away and I was like oh you know like it wasn't surprising but still like was unfortunate right um but yeah I mean like and you know this man he was he was friendly but like you know there was like a he had a he had a temper to him but like it was very much like a I get it man you're dying like I can't I I get it like I I'm not taking it this personally because you are very a very advanced cancer you can see the door and you're heading right for it and like that's just how it goes right um he was really into like was it Jeopardy or Wheel of Fortune he had like I'm I'm not even kidding piles and piles and piles of like DVDs or VHS of like a game like an old game show and he would just watch them in his room to go to bed. It was very it was fascinating.

SPEAKER_05 47:12

But you know like I think about him sometimes because it's like you know like he's been gone for years now like over a decade but like um yeah I you know it's I get it like you're facing your mortality right and that's a scary thing and you know again to me it's like the loss of in your independence and just like loss of your vision right you're losing a lot right even before you go like you just lose so much and that sucks yeah I don't know if you've ever hung out when it was dying Dan but uh yeah I were I worked in a nurse recommended for my for my entire college and teen years yeah yeah no it's very yeah that's very um and a lot of these people have it they're like no family around right like it's just like you you've seen it I'm sure like there's no family like the the the only you guys uh so I have the quote that I was uh the section I should say that I was referring to so he says charity has allowed the uncaring to appear to care and it's terrible for those dependent on it it has become big business as the government shirks its responsibilities in these uncaring times we go along with this so the rich and powerful who fucked us over once fucked us over again and get it both ways. We have always been mistreated so if anyone gives us the slightest sympathy we overreact with our thanks and it goes into the song where it's like I am a manish muff diving size queen with bad attitude and our slipping psychophag molesting the flies of privacy bawling lesbian boys a perverted hetero demon crossing purpose with death I am a cocksucking straight acting lesbian man with ball crushing bad manners laddish nymphomaniac politics spunky sexist desires of incestuous inversion and incorrect terminology I am a not gay yeah no I love that I love I love I love the it's God this sounds so pretended but like I love the expression like yeah be fucking angry be God damn it it's so true and honest you know I I love that um yeah it's incredibly profound stuff um yeah I mean uh speaking of dying uh since my kid listens to everything uh like you know she'll be in the back in the car seat I forgot what memory remember and I were talking about but I I probably had to say something about dying or something I don't remember and we're walking into into Hannaford and she goes she goes she's like she's like dad I go what she's like and I go well many ways just like very very I was like yeah many ways and she's like I'm like sometimes they get sick sometimes they get old sometimes they have an accident and she's like oh but she's just very you know just very straightforward how do people die and I was like it took me a moment to be like oh fuck how do I answer this one um because I do try to be very straightforward I don't want to just say like oh no people don't die but yeah she knows people die like you know and I'm waiting for the day that she realizes like wait are you gonna die you know like it she hasn't asked yet but I I feel it coming right um when she like it's like something in her head just clicks like oh everyone dies like that means you're gonna die one day and like how do you tell your child that yeah um so I said to her I was like you know accidents people you old and then she she so she was trying to ask like what's the most common way that people die but she didn't know how to ask that so she goes what's the most important way and I said to her I was like I think you're trying to say the most common way and she's like what is what do you mean I'm like I think you're trying to ask like are you trying to ask like what's like what what happens the most like what like it like and she goes yeah and I'm like yeah like to do I was like I think I would say old age probably and she goes oh that's the most important way I'm like not the most important way the most common way like she just can't understand like you know what I mean um yeah it was very interesting it's another fun moment in parenthood how do people die yeah geez um oh god kids are fun guys yeah right um uh I'm trying to think of what else what about the um I don't know there's the tilde Swinton of it all I don't know how many narrators there were on it was it just those two or was there a couple I think maybe um okay so there's there's two male actors um one of which is like our main narrator and the other one has like little vocalizations here and there and there's Tilda Swinton who's the female voice and then I believe I'm not confident but he is credited at the end when you might notice the voice changes a little bit that is Derek Jarman himself I'm pretty sure oh I thought it was Derek Jarman the entire time it wasn't oh no I think it's mostly an actor oh okay I thought it was because I know he is credited I I assumed it was him okay wow okay interesting I think it's not him until the end but I'm not I'm not actually confident maybe it is the other way around I don't know that was my guesswork from what I could find.

SPEAKER_06 52:25

Interesting okay um we were talking about just like parts that we like and Remy mentioned when he's talking about uh the the you you brought up your part um uh I lost my train of thought yeah no um I really uh I guess like I enjoyed it right like I I I was taken by it I found it very interesting uh his just like when he's just kind of talking about being at the cafe and then um oh when he talks about like you're in a waiting room and when you get called in like there's just no anonymous like they just call your name right he talks about like there's no you're not anonymous like everyone can hear who you are I found that very like an interesting perspective right um and I because you're all you're all there for like you know what you're there for like the same thing ish right um I'm assuming maybe I gotta I'm assuming if you have a specific like treatment for AIDS or etc.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

So like you all know you're there for something severe but I just found it interesting how you just thought like yeah they kind of just call your name like you're not anonymous like there's nothing like the like you can't hide behind anything like it's just like okay like your turn Derek whatever right um it was um and then just talking about the IV and like I found all the procedure of it all very interesting right um and I'm I'm I'm sure he was going multiple maybe once a day at that point right um yeah he does not spare you he tells you what it's like to have all yeah all those needles put into you he tells you about like oh I'm hoping that the surgery might give me a little bit more yeah he says the Buddha you know talks about like detachment he's like well the Buddha never had a needle put into him yeah yeah he also talks about like oh there's this experimental drug and he lists out all of the horrific side effects yeah and how he's like well this could this could help like yeah it's like it's a carcinogen and I'm like this is this is not a this isn't gonna help you at this point it's arguably gonna make you worse I think yes um and he just he talks about he's just like yeah they just you just sign like are you okay with that and he's just kind of like what choice do I have yeah we're gonna roll the dice yeah um no I it's um um and again I found the overall very very profound and um I don't know like very sad but again I think what saved it for me was the ending uh I'm gonna find it right that like the ending soliloquy in a way because to me it is you know soliloquy in the way Remember you know what that means right I'm assuming Dan Daniel soliloquy is yes I know what a soliloquy is Jesus okay so I mean in a lot of ways it is right it's just dying like speech right um I'm gonna find it so someone someone jest for a while um I think I think Tilda Sweden is probably the greatest working actress today actor period I would love to talk to her about him like uh I don't know if I mean because she talked about him did she give an interviews about him Remy have you I was trying to find something yeah I didn't like someone who's still alive and active who a lot I I also like basically got her start with him in like a lot of ways yeah um so it's it yeah like like she because of his work like that's how she got to go tan you know like for the first time right like like that's it's a re it's a really um interesting that that's this is like the milieu that she comes from these like experimental British art films from like the 80s um and explains a lot of her like taste in projects like like later in her career you know when she has more freedom to do whatever the hell she wants um you know you know so um I couldn't find any interviews but I'm sure I'm sure there's probably something I would hope.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Um friends of the show send us something if you know it's up if you can get Tilda Swinton on here let us know yes get her on here we'd love to interview Tilda specifically I would only talk to her about um Chronicles of Narnia where she played the white wish I do genuinely think she like she's not my favorite but I do if I had to you know judge acting objectively I think she is maybe one of the greatest actors oh yeah for sure just it's just so fucking good we just watched something with her in it actually Michael Clayton yeah that's how she got her like only Oscar nomination.

SPEAKER_06 56:52

Dan asking her about Michael Clay the entire time.

SPEAKER_05 56:54

Yeah yeah no um actually guys check her out this movie called the Eternal Daughter it's an A24 movie that like no one saw from like four years ago she's essentially um it's almost I think there's like a couple of their actors but it's mostly like a one-woman show of Tilda Swin playing various characters like talking to each other and it's really fucking good. Yeah six people of the cast yeah interesting yeah she plays Julie and Rosalind Hart interesting okay yeah it's like mostly organized around a mother daughter pair who she plays both um fun is she like in heavy makeup for like the mother I guess or like yeah yeah cool I did not know she was the white witch in Chronicles and Arnia yeah she is the white witch yeah um I remember that yeah she's done a lot yeah she's a burn after reading of course uh I would just that would just that that would be me just asking her about that honestly the entire time um also for Till of Switten lore you can watch the souvenir and the souvenir part two um that was directed by an old friend of hers Joanna Hogg um and stars her daughter uh and she's also in it too but it's like her and her real life daughter honor Switten burn um and it's kind of like a metaphor it's more of a metaphor about Joanna Hogg's life but there's a lot of interesting interplay between um those two.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

So no just every every movie I see her in um it it she seems to be one of those people that completely I feel like it's like what an actor actually should be you you know like how we talk about with actors um how they are constantly like you have a type like oh this person's playing against type like this but actors get most actors and that's not even I'm not even saying it's a bad thing but I feel like most actors are getting cast in things based on their already established personas and personalities that they bring to film even if they could you know but there someone like Tilda Swinton is you can't explain to me who Tilda Swinton is or what she brings she is just completely a different person every time I see her in a role and even even when I see her in um uh what is she like the Doctor Strange movies that character that she plays I feel like even if it's in like a Marvel movie in a side role it's like I feel like she is completely figured out like this entire this is a when I see that her on screen I think no matter what role she's in I feel like this is a character that is completely lived in Tilda Switten has thought through their entire life story and she just I can see that through her in every single performance she gives in any movie I see her in and I feel like she's just a completely completely different person in every movie. Like there is no front facing persona of Tilda Switon the actor because she's just every time she's in a film we just know her as something completely different. So yeah I just um why YMS always loves to talk about how I guess there's this one movie role. I think it's like I don't even know if she leads in it but there there's this movie that she did where apparently she um she learned how to speak fluent Russian just for this one part I guess um was like a whole part of her lore but um I think I saw that movie if it's what I'm thinking of it is literally a earlier not super early uh Luca Guadanino film called a bigger splash oh maybe it's that yeah because I know it wasn't super recent yeah yeah she is well it's mostly about the care her character's um son and his love fiascos um but she is a major character in that and she is like they're Italian they're all Italian but she is actually a Russian immigrant to Italian who married a wealthy Italian man. Yeah if that's the right movie then yeah apparently she learned not just her life but she learned fluent Russian for that role and um yeah I just God man god god love her but um so yeah I I'm sorry I don't have I'm I I felt like this was gonna not be this was gonna be one of our shorter conversations because I really don't know how much else to bring up I don't know what else what else you guys if you guys had much else but yeah it's just a deeply deeply moving piece of piece of art.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:20

I I was gonna say or I I what I did think about a lot when just thinking about the the form of the movie and you know what it what this how this is challenging what it means to be a film um I did think about you know it feels like this movie should be like one of those things where like an exhibit like in a museum where they maybe just just have like the blue screen displayed on like a uh uh like projected on a wall and then like you just hear the the the film being like projected or just pumped out through speakers I thought that would be so hard at MoMA yeah I'm not gonna lie yeah but I I felt like it should be like in a museum like something like that um but yeah I just um yeah I don't know if you guys have anything else I was I'm trying to think of like other things to to touch on but um so there's like there is an element of the film that we have not talked about um which is so obviously you know a big part of the film is his like thoughts and feelings and like the final months years of his life as he's going through life is being mostly blind and only being able to say see blue and experiencing what it had what it experiencing AIDS um and the complications around surrounding his AIDS uh diagnosis. But the other element of the film the more fantastical side of the film is that there's this character called blue this is like what Tilda Swinton's character is like narrating about and what blue is up to um and we can get into that about what we think that means.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

I thought that you're thank you I actually did completely forget isn't that like meant isn't that kind of um if we could even call it this like a whole like a subplot or a B plot in this where it kind of is like um kinda it's kind of like meant to be like interspersed these these um like other vignette soliloquies um of like the personification of the color blue and kind of going into the yeah like the the philosophy of what it means but um of of just the color itself maybe but I don't I don't know what I don't even know what that that whole part was getting at. I just don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:38

You've never had a blue period Dan have a blue period no I haven't uh what do you guys think? I don't know um oh you could you know Gene uh I I I didn't I didn't not enjoy it but like not my favorite part I just found myself more focused on about him like I just uh and I because like and personally I I I I love I I find people fascinating um it's part of the reason I I love my job and I get to talk to people and sometimes I'll just they'll just chat chat with me uh like especially elderly people who have like no friends or family so they're like lonely um so I'll just like they'll just start yapping and I'll just hold my phone and like 20 minutes later like I'll just start working because I'm like this is gonna be a long one. You know um 10 minutes go by and like I've just let them yap because like they need to talk to somebody but like I am fascinated by people and their experiences and a sonder of it all. And uh so I just found myself more hooked with just not not that I didn't care about the blue character but just find myself more caring about him talking about his dead friends and his day-to-day life you know because this is a person who lived and experienced things and now he's letting me like I just like I found myself caring more about that. As dull as that may be I just find it fascinating um it's like uh I I mentioned you guys I love memoirs um I have quite a few because I just love being about I just love learn learning about people's lives I just find it very fascinating.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:02

So this comes I only found out more about it through like reading about the film as I after I had finished it. So this this what's happening here is the poverty of us not seeing any of his previous films. I've only actually seen one other film from him that actually came out around the same time called Wittgenstein um that's very different from this very very different um but um what is a recurring pattern in his films it's like if we were fans of his and we saw all of his movies and then we went to go see this one, a thing that you would have noticed and stuck out is that frequently he uses a um small boy character as like a device to like kind of bring you into a story um because it's supposed to give you like a place of innocence that you can like jump off on and sort of like query about things. This is an this is an element in Wittgenstein Um, but since I had only seen the two films, I didn't I didn't make the connection until like it had been pointed out to me. Um, but um in this, in the opening, when they're explaining what blue is, blue is said to be a boy. Um, and so it's kind of a tool, a little bit what you were saying, Dan, about it like being like, what does blue mean? But it is a tool to kind of be like, not only what blue means, but how does this relate? How does this last testament that Jarman is giving us relate to his previous work? Right. And so it's an idea of like reflecting on um this point of boyhood innocence and how that gives away one, to like the wider idea of like, you know, blue being limitless, so anything can happen. But two, as like this innocent boy becomes a queer man, right? And so so like there's like the taboo, the messiness of homosexuality in this period, but then there's also the fact that he's gonna get AIDS, you know, and he's gonna die, and and there's gonna be real adversity there. Um, you know, you know, um, so it's it that that's that's what's going on in that. Um, I haven't seen enough of his films to like make broader um connections, but that is a thing in Wittgenstein. Wittgenstein is a film that he made about a real life philosopher uh called Victor I forget his first name, but he's called Wittgenstein. He was a prominent philosopher in the 20th uh century. He was the he was noteworthy for jumping between seemingly like contradictory schools of philosophy and thought throughout his career because he would just like go through these profound life changes and his brain would like do a 180 almost. And like he was also notorious for like being very hard to understand in the ideas he was trying to articulate. Like, like the movie shows several lectures of yours of his, and you're supposed to be there and like, what the hell are you talking about, man? But um, but essentially his biggest contribution in like the philosophy of language is the idea of like even if we could like translate literal words that an animal is communicating to you when they make noise, you would not be able to understand them because their perspective on the world is fundamentally different from a human's perspective on the world, and therefore it is futile to try to learn what animals are saying to you. Um that's like his he has many, many other ideas, but that is like his probably his most famous idea.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:26

Um Adams movie by aliens trying to communicate with us. Um, well, we're talking about animals here. So, like the idea is like you could never actually aliens, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:37

So, like, so it's like you could never actually understand a dog. You know, you never could, even if you spoke dog, you could not understand because a dog's experience is fundamentally different from yours. A dog experiences things primarily through smell. Humans do not. When you are grounded with most of your perspective in smell, you are speaking about things, you are understanding things just totally different. You are never going to truly understand each other.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:04

Not so that is very interesting. Um, yeah. Um, but that movie, uh, as it's trying to frame his life, is often drawing a metaphor of like him being kind of like an alien to humanity in in a way. And so there's this like recurring motif of like this little boy talking to like a literal alien. The boy is supposed to be like young Wittgenstein and like asking questions. The alien is like dunking on him the whole time, being like stupid. Like, um, so like there is this that it is like an image that he uses a lot um in his movies.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:39

Um yeah, yeah, so I guess that would be lost on me uh if I didn't realize like how thematically appropriate it is for his other works. Um the Disney version would be the little boy and like a mentor character. Yeah. Uh speaking of, I was watching Tales of the Jedi, or no Tales of the Underworld, and I'm like Floney can't fucking help himself, can he? I haven't seen Tales of the Underworld. Not even a spoiler, Asaj Ventress, her story ends up being the same thing. She finds a Padawan who survived Order 66 under Oh, I think I wait, I think I saw the Ventress arc. I don't think I think it was the other arc of that that I did. But it's it's it's it boils down to the same thing, right? People have lost everything, they find each other and mentor younger, and I'm just like fucking felone, man. You can't help yourself, can you?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:28

The only cool thing about that is that it animated parts of that like scrapped uh Quinlan Voss arc from like the wall. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:36

It starts off with how she's revived. Yeah, yeah, because that because yeah, I I enjoyed it ultimately because I like Ventures as a character. Um yeah, but I'm just like again, another fucking here I am with my mentor figure. La la la la la Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

Yeah now for two hours on Star Wars. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:59

No, um the only other thing I wanted to say, I mean, if someone wants to say something actually first before I get into this, that that I I've I've spoken a bit. Um no go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:08

Yeah, the the only thing don't go into the point yet. I gotta go see Maya real quick, apparently. So talking about it. Oh, okay. Pivoting, pivoting. I just want to hear what you have to say. One moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

So have you seen Mandalorian and Grogu?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:29

Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

Um I forgot that it's it's just so funny how um I actually kind of thought it was fun, but like I just Star Wars is just such a non-entity anymore. It's really funny. Um like how how much like I feel like a Star Wars the first Star Wars movie in what how many years, seven years came out, and no literally no one gives a shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:58

Um Noah, well one uh amendment to that is that it is actually making money.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Sure. Oh, oh yes, uh well, yes, that's the that's the bare minimum, sure, but yeah, like it like it's a hit.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:11

Like it is top ten in the box office, both like here and worldwide.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

Sure, just like cultural impact, I guess. I like I already kind of forgot that I'm gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:20

No one's like like foaming at the mouth about it. Yeah, that's that's definitely true.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:23

The conversation had already left like every conversation.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:28

Yeah, like my so my dad took my sister and my cousin to go see it. Um, and they're like very like normy Star Wars fans. They're not like deep in the trenches and stuff like that. They just know what they know and like what they like, you know what I mean? Um, and so they went, and even they were kind of like, yeah, like we had fun, but this does just seem like several episodes from that show shoved together, you know. Like they were kind of like, yeah, they went and they had fun, but not even not even they thought it was like amazing, you know, you know, you know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:01

I I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it as a as a Star Wars, but yeah, it was like, but it just yeah, it just it's it it was um it was fun, disposable adventure stuff, you know. Like I actually kind of liked it, but um, but yeah, just like it's like what are we doing? Like you just you just stitched together like four episodes. I I just my whole thing with Mando was always was um I like I like Western episode of the week. Um there was no it it had it didn't have any of the stuff that I hated was like all the Mandalorian creed bullshit.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:37

Um yeah, but but anyway, oh we're talking about the Mandalorian Grogu, but we can pivot back now that you I haven't watched it because I haven't had time, but Miriam wants to go see it. I my wife wants to watch it, man. I don't have to tell you. Watch something better. It was I would go watch backrooms if I could, but oh well.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

That was mid.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:58

See, I see you just have to channel Miriam Miriam's natural like interest in like East Asian media to like get her to watch like way better movies.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:07

Like that that's just all there's a movie out right now. Uh NCG's playing it that's like a limited release, like Asian movie or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

I think oh The Curious. I keep hearing about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:17

Maybe that one Jinsei. That's an that's like uh that one big that's an animated film from Japan that's like making the rounds right now. Yeah, one of those.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

I am I am so sorry, sorry, sorry. Last pivot, last pivot. I'm so pumped. Um, this weekend, I really, really, really want to see the death of Robin Hood.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:34

Um, because that looks yeah, I'm not gonna be able to see it this weekend, but I do want to see that really badly.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:40

That looks so up my alley home for Father's Day.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:44

All right, we all have we all have one.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:47

Oh, that's right. Shit, I might not be able to see it either. God damn it. Um, all right, anyway.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:52

Your parents live like what, 20 minutes away? 20 minutes away. My parents live many hours, many, many hours away, many, many hours away.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:00

But my brother lives in the city too, so he comes in, and then I feel like I hang out with them for most of the weekend. Anyway, um, all right, uh, back to blue. Remington, what was your big profound thought that you were?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:12

So, yeah, um, so so like I think really central to this movie is the idea that it is meant to be like a last testament, and like a big part of that and the way that um the the right, so so first off, contextualized, right? So we have the metaphor of the boy and the device of the boy being kind of like a reflection on his career. We have um the stream of consciousness, which is kind of like his final thoughts, like the last like things he's trying to get out there before he dies, like his idea on like capitalism, on Thatcherism, on war, um, and on the state of the world, right? Um, but um part of what's happening in the background, and also like in the more like philosophical bits, when it's just like pure like we're gonna talk about Buddhism right now, kids. Um, you know, you know, um what's happening with with the blue here is because blue is meant to be um meant to pr to represent limitlessness um throughout the film, is the movie is about the abandonment of ego. And that's a very big important notion in um Buddhism, by the way. Um, which is it's kind of like I've reached the end, and I I'm gonna get all of this stuff out here so I can move on, right? And how that kind of actually feeds into what you were saying earlier, Gene, of how it's kind of like, well, life is kind of a blip, you know, that's just kind of the way that it is. You kind of have to go on and like take it with what you had and what you left behind, and that that's kind of the way that it is. And so we are so the movie opens with a bell ring, if you remember, which is used by Buddhists in their rituals to open and close ceremonies. So it opens the bell chime, and it ends with them, and then we surrender ourselves to the blue, we are letting things go. Um, as we're going through all these thoughts, feelings, intense emotions. Um, and then we slowly come to the end after we have let it all out and we have surrendered ourselves to the limitlessness of the beyond. Um, and the bell chimes again as the movie ends. Uh meaning that the ceremony, the ritual is over. Um, and so like as I was like ruminating in on this, I'm like, this is this is a masterpiece. Like, you you know what I mean? Like, like this, this is like probably one of the most beautiful and profound things on death that I have ever like allowed myself to like be surrendered to. Um, it is I think it's his way of saying, and this kind of feeds into the pessimism of like true liberation for oppressed people, specifically queer peoples, can only come in the beyond because he had no hope left in the world, and that's why it's so important to just let go and accept what happens will happen, and we'll all there'll be something else on the other side where we are free of all of these things of consumerism, of capitalism, of war, of corruption. Um we don't have to deal with we will just be in like a perfect state of nirvana, and that is the best liberation we can hope for, which is simultaneously a brutal thought, but also a bleak thought, you know. Um, and so you know, I just to me that's what the movie is about. And and I that's that's why I was crying at the end when when it was all like coming together, right? The marbles are falling into place. Um, and that's what I wanted to make sure we talked about.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:52

I mean, I can't help but think too, also, like blue is a you know, like it's a color associated with like a like melancholy, right? You feel kind of blue, you're kind of down to I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:03

Um I thought about that. He doesn't really talk about it like that um throughout. Um, and since he's just always talked about it that way. Yeah, and that's not what Klein talked about it. That's not what Klein meant by their blue period either. Um, and so I I I that's what I thought going in, it was going to be like, oh, this is like a metaphor for depression, but that's not really what he didn't think in that way.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:26

I just think there's there's still like a melancholy to you know, like you're dying. Um, but I don't know, maybe uh that's my yeah, my interpretation of it in a way. It's just it's your interpretation. Um yeah, no, it's uh that's just a theory, a film theory. Are we gonna get sued for that? Can we can I say that?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Like and subscribe. Uh no, yeah, that's uh that's really beautiful, man. I think it's I think it's deeply, deeply profound. And yeah, like I I just this is what I love about like art, you know. Um, hokey as that sounds, you know, it's like it's the ultimate form of expression in in one way or another, you know. Um whether it be just like, you know, like a soundscape or a race. You know what I was actually I'm glad I'm glad um one of the things I remember um well this is kind of I guess maybe just piggybacking off the idea of like where do you where do you get meaning from? You know what I I uh in college when I was in community college, um I actually I took an art class and um I had this art teacher that was so he was so um stereotypical, like wonky, like passionate, like artist guy. Um but he was like an old he was like an older guy. Um he looked kind of yes, like he kind of looked like um he kind of looked like Einstein, but with like black hair and like a mustache, but like he um but he wore like you know colorful outfits and like a scarf. Um he was straight. He did mention that he had a wife, but like uh but he was very um just like the way he dressed, you would think maybe he was gay. But like um, but no, but he was like a deeply and he and he but he talked about art in a very um what fuck off.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:09

Um he talked about Primo Daniel, be careful now.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:12

I love the the gays, the gays. Um surely there's a better way to say that. Um but he said um I'm thinking of the clip from It's Owen Sunny when the piano starts to fall on Mac and what Danny DeFli when Frank yells.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:31

No. But I'm gonna send it to you later.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

Dan knows. Yeah, but anyway. Anyway, um, I really loved how this guy would talk about art and how like he would like in a very practical sense and try to like um like teach us about it. Like I remember we went to there was like a little art gallery in our college that he would bring us to, like with all the nice little it was like a nice little gallery, like with the light, nice little professional displays of just very abstract paintings and stuff like like the classic just like paint swatches of very abstract um images, right? And um I really liked how he would talk about it, where he would tell us, like, you know, he he would say, like, okay, like when you look at this painting, it doesn't need to have like this profound feeling, or like it's it's it's meant to like evoke an emotion. Like, how does this make you feel? What is and then we would just talk about it. Like it's classic, but it but it works like classic student, like what does this make you feel? What is this? And then he would also say, like, well, look at the he would say, look at the look at the title, like, because every every painting would have like a title to it, and he would say, What do you think this why do you think this artist named this abstract collection of paint swatches and shapes or whatever? Why do you think it was called this? You know, like look at the title. What do you what do you where where do you get that? Like it just it felt like a very practical way to approach um looking at art. And I always loved how um David David Lynch used to actually, God rest his soul, he used to talk about art in this way, like how um I don't understand why film as a medium has to have like narrative. Um, you know, you look at something. I I think the greatest example of this is uh from David Lynch is something like you could say a racer head, where there is kind of it's kind of a cop-out answer because it is kind of there is somewhat of a narrative to it, and it is, but it's very clear that it's meant to be Lynch's anxiety of being a father, and there's just stuff in it that you can't explain. And I don't know, it just it doesn't I like that idea. A film can just be an expression of a feeling. Um, same thing with painting, same thing with like audio, visual dramas. It doesn't need to be like a narrative. It it it art is meant to is an expression, and sometimes that expression is just a feeling. Um I remember I remember Remington and I went on this whole rant when we talked about Eddington, where it just feels like there's a there's a feeling being expressed here, and that is meant to be the the meaning of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:10

Um I mean no no no I mean yeah, I mean like I well said, Dan. Uh well said. Um I mean I personally that's why I that's what I truly love about movies. Uh like you know, the message behind it, or what is the director or what like what is trying to be said, right? What is the movie trying to say to me, whether it's a political message or whether it's just the life, you know, uh the director or whoever the artist is talking about just a life experience of theirs, like trying to convey like American graffiti, right? Trying to convey a time period, yeah. Um, this like moment in time, like um that that's that that's that that that is that is truly um at its core why I find myself loving movies. Um, you know. Yeah. And you know, sure you can't apply you can't apply that to like Jurassic World, but I know because when I'm watching Jurassic World, I'm just trying to I I just like dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:05

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:05

And then I watched the movie and I was like, I always waste two hours of my life watching that, but whatever, we ball.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

Um it serves every well you could say the same thing with you could say the same thing with music, right? Like I like it, you know, like it doesn't need to be uh a meaning that you derive that you can sum up in a sentence. It can be like you describe a feeling. But no, there's there's ambient music, there's things that are meant to invoke feelings, you know. So but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:36

Um yeah, I mean I could recommend you guys a plethora of albums that are very deep messages where it's like this person was clearly trying to say something and just bear their soul out, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:48

Right, like like something like to pip a butterfly or yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Um exactly. As opposed to this, this I th I I used to listen to some ambient music like back in the day, but um anyway.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:02

Yeah, yeah, like when you listen to GNX, it's like Kendrick really doesn't like Drake. I get it. Uh no, it's also his love letter to like you know Los Angeles, Dan, as you know, like it's his like love letter to where he comes from. Um but yeah, um good movie, Remington. Yeah, I'm glad I'm glad that we no I want to take a moment to thank you because like this is the kind of thing where like I never in other c in no other occasion of my life would I have watched this movie, like or even have maybe even known about it. So, you know, I do appreciate that you bring these things to this show. I want to give you let me give you your flowers, Remington, because I do appreciate like you give me no like for real, give me the opportunity to like see these kinds of things, right? Because like I truly do not know where else I would have learned learned about this, or like even if I learned about it, probably never would have watched it otherwise, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:57

Yeah, no, this is genuinely why I like doing this.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:59

Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:00

Yeah, no, this is why I like doing this because it's a it I not only and I like I like when I when I'm watching the stuff, like whenever we watch like the whatever we're gonna be talking about, I love thinking in the back of my head, oh, we're gonna get to talk about this. Like, I'm gonna get to talk about this with other people, you know. So um it's fun. No, it's it's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:20

Um but you are welcome.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:23

Yeah. I'm excited for your next pick now, because I like how you're doing like a like nomadically uh exploring like genre and then like you know, experimental. Like, like I'm like, what's he gonna like you you never know when he's gonna come out, what he's gonna come with next, and it's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:38

Get ready for Leon the Professional. No.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:42

Oh I mean, if you want to do challenging, since you know you see you seem thirsty for, I can find some challenging uh choices.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:50

Uh not even challenging, I just really enjoyed that. Like, like when we watched the The Black Pirate, right? I talked about how, like, you know, again, a movie that I probably wouldn't have seen other. Wise, but I really enjoyed just seeing, like, oh yeah, like again, like this is an early movie, and like just being taken by like, oh, how much you can do, right? Without CGI, and like you're just doing everything practically, and again, like the ending, you have just so many extras, right? And they're like in the water, and like there's no stunt levels, these guys are actually in there, they might actually drown. And it's just like it's really profound, like seeing like they still made it work, right? And like, and it again, like one of my things was like, how do you convey a story with no dialogue, like like spoken word? And like, oh, that's how, right? Um, and you know, I talk for for those listening, go watch our black pirate. Uh, again, like it's it's it's really I I love seeing these different styles of like how can you convey a story, an expression, a feeling in a non-traditional way. Because I'm you know, I'm like I'm a very vanilla movie guy. I mean, sure, I've seen like probably movies that your average viewer hasn't seen, but yeah, I like my slop, you know, and I don't have I don't have a lot of time to like watch a lot of things. So my average movie experience is just like my wife wanted to watch this movie about the Mexico World Cup that was like pretty by the by the numbers, right? Um, but so it's fun when I get to watch something like this where it's like, ooh, this is this is fun. Not even challenging, not even in a challenging way of like this is very fascinating and how it's done, right? So thank you, Remington.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:23

You're welcome. And for my next pick, we will be watching Race On, a 14-hour and 33-minute film about nuclear weapons. It's also the longest film ever made in history.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:42

Guys, I just heard about this thing called the Backrooms. Get this shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:48

I wanted to watch the um was it Peter Jackson who did the World War I documentary? Yes. Uh they shall not be forgotten. Like, I've wanted to watch it.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:01

Yes, he also did a two-part documentary on the Beatles. Fun fact. That's supposed to be very good.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:06

Oh, you talk about the one on Disney Plus? Hmm? The one on Disney Plus, which is them like making um Abbey Road. I don't think is it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:16

Uh I don't know. I don't know. The Beatles have been done by everyone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:22

Um do you guys want to go into I don't know if we want did I don't know if we have closing thoughts or anyone wants to get into that? Because um, I know Gene, you got the heart out.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:31

So yeah, yeah, my brother's also coming over to watch the game with me. So nice. Um and Connor, apparently. For sure. Uh was certain closing thoughts. I guess I'll go first. Uh no, no, again, like I'm I'm basically just certain closing thoughts. I'm not gonna lie. Uh yeah, uh I truly enjoyed that. That was very profound. Um, I found myself again, like I I just looked up the end the ending monologue and just go read it again. It's like talking about like on the beach, and it's kind of you know, it sounds like he's like there of a lover, and like you're just like life is fleeting, and you know it's it's a passing drift of a cloud, and I just that's when I was like teary-eyed, like, oh fuck, like this is like a man like accepting it, right? And like, but also kind of understanding like I'll see my friends and lovers again, you know, like a like a like a like a like a like a kind of positive to that, right? Like, and like and I I because you know you don't know what's gonna happen. That's the unknown, right? That's that's that's the ultimate human question, right? What comes next? And I like how he tackled that, you know, and just like maybe it's on a beach somewhere, right? You're dear of your lover, you're gonna see them again. And yes, life is fleeting, but you know, in this moment, you know, maybe that's that's all it is, right? Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:47

What would you rate it?

SPEAKER_06 1:31:49

Oh, it was a five out of five for me. That was this was a great movie. This is this was like this is like a very well incredibly well done.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:56

Cool. Uh yeah, no, I I I loved it. Um thought it was extremely profound. Uh funny tidbit when I I remember Remington originally mentioning that he it was a film that was just one blue screen. Um and I kind of I remember you saying that, but I didn't really fully understand what you meant by that, I guess, um, or just really process what that meant. And when I make our little promo image for the film, and I put a little still image of the film, I was looking through and I just was like, wait a minute. And I'm like, oh, it's just a blue screen. So that was a very funny little experience I had before watching it of just like, oh, it's I literally am putting a still of a blue screen. Um, okay, cool. And so yeah, no, it was it was deeply profound. Um I think we went through everything already, but yeah, no, completely challenging everything um of what it means to be a film, um, which I really love, and pushing the medium and just all sorts of different directions that it uh doesn't traditionally go in. Uh so yeah, I I think I gave this a seven when I first watched it just because I didn't really know what to make at first. But yeah, no, after after listening to us uh and you guys talk about it, I would definitely bump this up to like a nine. Um I think it's I think it's comp uh a beautiful piece of art. So yeah. Yeah. What about you, Remy? Anything? Any closing thoughts?

SPEAKER_05 1:33:21

Yeah, um I want to thank myself for picking this film.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:28

The Obama giving himself a metal meme.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:33

Um, because like if I hadn't put these like I don't know, limitations is not the right word, but like the idea of like uh trying to be like discerning in my picks, you know, you know, I might not have seen this film. Um, you know, the fact that I specifically was speaking out a particular kind of experimental film and that this really worked, um, and that I also really liked it. Um it was just it's just like a very uh rewarding experience. Um I yeah, it just it just really changes the way you think about movies, you know, it just really uh broadens your mind about what the medium can be, what the art where the art form can go. And I hope that everyone gets a movie like that that does that for you. And I would also encourage uh the both of you to seek out more, not only of his films, um, because he's made he made a few, uh, and there's you know have of great repute. Uh, but I would also encourage you all to seek out more experimental works. Um, perhaps, you know, so like the works of Gaspar Noah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:45

Gaspar No Way, you beat me to it.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:48

Uh, you know, we could you could talk like some of the more easier ones to swallow, uh, or like uh Tree of Life from Terrence Malik. Uh you could watch anything by Luis Bonel. Uh that's another big one. Um Meshes of the Afternoon comes to mind. Um, any of the works from Stanley Brockage, I think I'm saying his name correctly. Um, you know, just like broaden your horizons, you know, and watching stuff like that, that that like outlandish out there stuff, it will tell it will clarify to you what truly you like and don't like and what interests you and what you want to look for in a movie. Um, and that's just uh where I would want to leave you. Um, I gave it I gave it a a uh five stars in Letterboxd, 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:40

Yeah, great. Um all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:44

Uh cool. So yeah, um, with that, I believe it is um Gene's pick uh for next month. So uh Gene, yeah, set us up, buddy. What what do you got for us, sir?

SPEAKER_06 1:35:58

I genuinely didn't know what to pick, I'm not gonna lie. I kind of forgot for a while too. Um and I got a little bit of a well, yeah, generally I do. There's a movie I've been wanting to pick, but it also has the it also has the word blue in the title, so I was like, let me not fucking do that right now. Uh and then uh a few of my choices. I check Letterboxd, and you fuckers either you both have seen it or Remington has seen it. Example, I was gonna pick True Romance, but both of you fuckers have seen it. It's of course I've seen True Romance. I know, Dan, I know, Dan. I know I was gonna and I was hoping to see it because I was like, I was gonna say I'm gonna steal the Dan playbook and pick this movie, but Dan has seen it. So I'm going to have a back pocket movie of mine that basically basically this is a movie where I was like, this is a rainy day, like precisely for this moment. I'm I don't wanna I don't want to spend too much time introducing it because I do have to get off uh because my brother's on his way here, he's not here by now, but um, okay. So in 2001, a director who had done three movies uh basically wanted to kind of go back to his roots. Um and by that, you know, took and he did wanted to kind of hey like he wanted to just not do that again, right? Um Wiki then describes it as a film that was not influenced by production techniques used in Hollywood cinema. Uh director wanted to reject commercial production techniques that he had used in his previous films like Dolly's, close-ups, and dissolves. So the movie has a documentary style to it. It's also by design an American road movie, but not an America, it's reimagined. Um, and I find this very interesting because the movie he made after this one is a very much a Hollywood production. Uh we've actually watched a movie by this director before. Uh Dan loved the movie. So we're gonna finally watch uh Itumamata también by Alfonso Cuaron. Uh because I have it's been a very long time since I've seen this one. This is this is a movie that is very near and dear to my wife's heart, so I can watch it with her. Uh, I kind of don't really remember it. Um, and I just watched Diebaluna in a movie, so it's I was like, whatever, I'll just back pocket. This is a back pocket for a while. Um so Remington, like I just said. Funny to me because he didn't want to do a Hollywood movie, and then do you know what he made right after this? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:39

Very interesting how that works out, right? This will be our first second um director pick. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:47

Um, this has been a back pocket of mine. He hasn't done anything since like Roma, which is insane to me. Yeah, incredible. Yeah, um, but I was like, fuck, I won a letterbox, doesn't seem you guys have watched it, so no, it's been on the list forever. I've never seen it. Yeah, this is a this is an issue of mine, you fuckers. Um, especially, especially Reminton, he watches everything. Um I have another back pocket movie that's uh that I'm gonna pick in the future near future. No, that's fair.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:12

Um and we haven't of the uh three amigo directors, it's definitely Quaron that I've seen the the least of.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:18

Um well I haven't I haven't animated one in mind that uh I don't think we've watched an animated since uh Fritz the Cat, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:39:24

Um I would like to that's why we're gonna watch Fritz the Cat 2 on my next pick.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:29

No, this next one I it's in a back pocket. I will I'll bring it soon because I'm saying you guys haven't seen it either, and I it's I really I really want to watch it, but we'll get there. Um I almost picked um David Lynch Dan's at Perfect Blue, right? Is that Blue Velvet? Blue Velvet that um perfect blue is a Japanese film, yeah. That exactly Satoshi Khan, the great late Satoshi Khan. Yes, that was a blue velvet, but I was like, no, again, blue in the title, and I'm sure, and like I'm pretty sure Dan has seen it. Uh so I've seen blue. Yeah, I've seen most of Lunch's films. And then you mentioned uh uh Razor Head Dan. So yeah. Alright, cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:08

All right, so I'm down for it, Tombian.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:10

Yeah, yeah. That sounds cool. Yeah, it was it was released in limited markets, uh you know, in its full Spanish title too in the US. So interesting to believe the cycle it had. Um yeah, the movie before this one, he got off posture, I think. Like he I didn't realize how his second and third movie were like very yeah, you saw the commercial she did in Remington? Yeah, his I mean it's his second and third movie were like full-on like Hollywood productions, which I found very interesting. That I can see why he wanted to let's not do that again and have the refresher, and then he made Harry Potter, so whatever. Yeah, um, but yeah, and I I do love the idea of like he wants to make an American road movie, but like in Mexico, right? Um, because you don't really see that, you know, and it's it's you know, it's John itself. So all right, that is a movie. Uh I do have to sign off, boys, because Audio's at my door.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:00

Thank you very much, everyone. You can see us all next time. I love you all. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:13

And you will still have to live a life that's been to the harmony when the spirit is.